Old Army Records (18th-19th Century) - COMPLETED

[descartes46]

Hello Forum,

After a long reprieve from doing my family history I've decided to have another go at solving a few mysteries. I was wondering if somebody could advise about old army records?

I found one of my ancestors Joseph BAKER (1779 - 1851) on the 1841 census records. He was born in and retired again to good old Lichfield and he shows up in the census records there as occupation: army. It would be interesting to see if I could find any records for his time in the army and I'd like to find out which regiment he belonged to.

I know there is the army veteran's website to get 20th century army records but how does one go about investigating 18th-19th century records?

Regards,
D.

[grangers14]

I will move this over to Militart section because you may get more help in there.
Jo

[sparkstopper]

I can find this one: but doesn't state where born!!
First Name:
Josh.
Initials:
J
Surname:
Baker
Nationality:
British
Rank:
Gunner
Campaign Medals:
Waterloo Medal

The Waterloo Medal was issued in 1816-17 and awarded to Josh. Baker, and to anyone who had taken part in one or more of the following battles: Lingny, 16th June; Quatre Bras, 16th June; Waterloo, 18th June.

This is the first medal issued by the British Government to all soldiers present at an action and the first campaign medal awarded to the next-of-kin of men killed in action.


Service:
British Army
Regiment:
royal horse artillery
Royal Horse Artillery during the during the Napoleonic Wars 1793-1815

[apowell]

Hi,

I'm wondering do you have a place of birth for your Joseph Baker because you need to cross reference the information to pinpoint your exact fellow given there were a few Joseph Bakers who received a pension around that time.

The person mentioned may well not be your person as pointed out given no place of birth:
First Name:
Josh.
Initials:
J
Surname:
Baker
Nationality:
British
Rank:
Gunner
Campaign Medals:
Waterloo Medal

If we search the National Archives we find:

Reference:
WO 97/1212/62

Description:
JOSEPH BAKER

Born STUTTON, Suffolk

Served in Royal Artillery Drivers

Discharged aged 27

Date:
1806-1816

The above is most likely the person who won the Waterloo medal given the Royal Artillery and dates served. If your chap was born in Staffordshire and the difference in age then it unlikely to be the above person.

We need as much information on your chap to investigate further but he must have received a pension so therefore records must be available.

Regards
Adrian

[apowell]

Hello,

I've searched a few Joseph Baker's on the National Archives and found another possible match with the Waterloo Medal award so it's going to be tricky to work out the correct person.

Interestingly on the 1841 census returns you mentioned it stated Joseph wasn't born in County ? I'm not sure this was a mistake or was he indeed born somewhere else. Is it possible he was discharged at Lichfield and married a local lass ?

Interesting to find out more if possible.

Regards
Adrian

[apowell]

Hello again

I'm getting really interested in Joseph and after further research found this which ticks the boxes eg. place of birth and age:


Reference:
WO 119/48/146


Description:
JOSEPH BAKER.

Born LITCHFIELD, Staffordshire.

Served in Hampshire Fencibles; 3rd Dragoon Guards.

Discharged aged 38.

Covering dates give year of enlistment to year of discharge.

Kilmainham Reference: A14247.

Date:
1799-1818

Held by:
The National Archives, Kew

Legal status:
Public Record

Language:
English

What do you think ?

Regards
Adrian

[apowell]

Hi,

The Joseph Baker mentioned above which seems a good option I can confirm saw a lot of service with the 3rd Dragoon Guards during the Pennisula Campaigns being awarded the following battle clasps:
:Talavera
:Albuera
:Vitoria
:Toulouse

Joseph was really in the thick of the fighting serving within Capt Brice's Troop and given your Joseph lived after 1848 this helps prove we have the same person because the above medal wasn't issued until 1848 and the person or next of kin needed to claim it. We know your Joseph was alive until 1851 so it's further proof that the above are the same persons.

We really need to investigate further given the above information.

Wow this is real history

Regards
Adrian

[gardener]

Just wondered if there were any births of children to account for? Not that he would have had to be there for the birth (or even the conception in some cases) but perhaps a marriage? When and where did he marry?

[descartes46]

Hi,

The Joseph Baker mentioned above which seems a good option I can confirm saw a lot of service with the 3rd Dragoon Guards during the Pennisula Campaigns being awarded the following battle clasps:
:Talavera
:Albuera
:Vitoria
:Toulouse

Joseph was really in the thick of the fighting serving within Capt Brice's Troop and given your Joseph lived after 1848 this helps prove we have the same person because the above medal wasn't issued until 1848 and the person or next of kin needed to claim it. We know your Joseph was alive until 1851 so it's further proof that the above are the same persons.

We really need to investigate further given the above information.

Wow this is real history

Regards
Adrian

This is a fantastic find! Thanks you so much!

Regards,
D

[descartes46]

Just wondered if there were any births of children to account for? Not that he would have had to be there for the birth (or even the conception in some cases) but perhaps a marriage? When and where did he marry?

Hi Gardener,

Here is a bit more info on Joseph...

b. 27 Dec 1779, Lichfield
m. 3 Jan 1820 to Jane WALTON (at St Michaels Lichfield)
d. 1851 Lichfield (aged 72).

Kids:

James BAKER 1821-1851
Harriet BAKER 1825-
Freddy BAKER 1831-
Sarah BAKER 1835-
Henry BAKER 1839

I hope this is the same Joseph from the Hampshire Fencibles; 3rd Dragoon Guards mentioned above... If so this is really exciting!

Darren

[gardener]

I see, so that was all post-military service. he seems to have been fairly "active".

James Baker christening: 18 November 1821 SAINT CHAD,LICHFIELD,STAFFORD,ENGLAND

Eliza Baker christening: 11 July 1824 SAINT CHAD,LICHFIELD,STAFFORD,ENGLAND

Harriot Baker christening: 5 August 1827 SAINT CHAD,LICHFIELD,STAFFORD,ENGLAND

Frederic Baker christening: 19 September 1830 SAINT CHAD,LICHFIELD,STAFFORD,ENGLAND

Ann Baker christening: 24 June 1832 SAINT CHAD,LICHFIELD,STAFFORD,ENGLAND

Sarah Baker christening: 1 September 1833 SAINT CHAD,LICHFIELD,STAFFORD,ENGLAND

Mary Baker christening: 25 October 1835 SAINT CHAD,LICHFIELD,STAFFORD,ENGLAND
death: 6 July 1839

Henry Baker christening: 8 September 1839 SAINT CHAD,LICHFIELD,STAFFORD,ENGLAND

[apowell]

Hi,

After some researching I have found the date of death of Joseph Baker of the 3rd Dragoons taken from the Regimental Register of Pensioners:

Jos Baker of 3rd Dragoon Guards- awarded 11d from 29th May 1818 (residence given Birmingham) died 28th March 1851.

The date looks good and it's possible on discharge he went to Birmingham before moving to Lichfield.

The bottom line is obtain your Joseph's death certificate and if the above date matches you will know 100% that this is your ancestor.

It's very difficult to match an ancestor so far back and given his involvement in the Napoleonic wars very rewarding indeed.

I think given all the positive evidence it's well worth getting that certificate because I'm very confident you have the same person.

Please let us know if you decide to get the certificate and keep us updated.

Regards
Adrian

[apowell]

Hi again,

I checked the freereg website just in case Joseph was listed and jackpot
http://www.freereg.org.uk/cgi/SearchRes ... ID=7529283

This must be him and what's exciting is he was buried 4 Apr 1851 so most likely he died a little before matching the death date of 28th March. The death certificate will give the date of death but all this fits perfectly.

A little further information here is the marriage entry giving some useful witness names that may help you research the families further
http://www.freereg.org.uk/cgi/SearchRes ... rdID=31817

Take care
Adrian

[descartes46]

Hi,

After some researching I have found the date of death of Joseph Baker of the 3rd Dragoons taken from the Regimental Register of Pensioners:

Jos Baker of 3rd Dragoon Guards- awarded 11d from 29th May 1818 (residence given Birmingham) died 28th March 1851.

The date looks good and it's possible on discharge he went to Birmingham before moving to Lichfield.

The bottom line is obtain your Joseph's death certificate and if the above date matches you will know 100% that this is your ancestor.

It's very difficult to match an ancestor so far back and given his involvement in the Napoleonic wars very rewarding indeed.

I think given all the positive evidence it's well worth getting that certificate because I'm very confident you have the same person.

Please let us know if you decide to get the certificate and keep us updated.

Regards
Adrian

Thanks Adrian, you have been very helpful. Much appreciated.
I am in Vientiane, Laos until June on a teaching contract but when I'm back in the UK this summer I will certainly be obtaining the death certificate for Joseph to confirm the match!

Regards,
Darren

[apowell]

Hi,

That's sounds great.

I'll archive this until you have the death certificate after your return from abroad when I can re-instate the post.

All the best abroad and take care.

Regards
Adrian